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[JCZ]

Hi guys, I have this question...

In the past, when it came to talking to women, my strategy was rather simple: I just didn't do a thing. Whenever I saw a nice woman, I started to wait for the 'right' moment to start talking to her, which of course never came. No, wait, sometimes it DID came, but then I felt so terribly awkward that the conversation really didn't lead anywhere. Oh, and don't even get me started on the few women that clearly invited me to go talk to them. The number of times I totally screwed up...

When I decided I really had to start WORKING on a different attitude (see my introduction in 'Introduce yourself'), I eventually came across some 'drills' that were meant to diminish shyness. Now I know a number of people advice against overly forced approach drills, but what I've found actually does yield some results.

Now, I want to radically change my mentality. No longer will I wait for some fairy-like woman that will come over and talk to me. I want to be able to do what a man's supposed to do: take initiative. I already have experienced that this attitude helps me in other fields as well (with coworkers for example).

What I did was this. I went out into my city's center, and started approaching women, asking them for directions. This works, but not very much; it takes away some of the fear, it gives me some confidence, and there it stops.

The other day, I read some other advice: just go out, and say 'Hi!' to all women you encounter. Nothing more, nothing less. I can see this might work; it feels so horribly awkward, that I didn't yet manage to try it out. Yet, my guess is that the awkwardness is the strength of this little 'drill'; maybe doing this for a day really does diminish social shyness to a great extent.

So, the questions I have for you guys, is this one: have you practiced on this shyness thing? What did work for you, and what didn't? Did you feel any of the 'awkwardness' I just described? What did you do with that? Because this very awkwardness really is keeping me from going out and doing it: what if the feeling is a warning to me that this might be not a good thing to do, might even be counter-productive?

Love to hear your comments!

Cheers,

Johannes

[Cpt. Jackal]

I had something happen to me a few weeks ago that changed my perspective on this issue, and maybe it can help you too.

I was attending a horse clinic near where I live, and pretty much nobody knew one another. We were 12 people plus the instructor. He had us play a sort of Simon Says with the big yoga ball we use for the horses, and play a sort of tug-o-war with the lazo. Now, after we performed the above, laughing and feeling a little awkward, but with a wonderful sense of becoming a team, he rounded us all up and said:"No, I haven't gone crazy, the whole point of this was to cross the Silly Bridge. It takes you from your comfort zone to your learning zone, and it's represented by those situations in life in which you feel absolutely, well, silly. Now, a group of grown ups playing with a yoga ball will feel silly to most of us, but it started to build the team spirit and take off some of the edges, and you'll see it will help during the next days."

I must say, it made for a great course, with a relaxed environment where people weren't tense or worried of looking inadequate. It also taught me that, well, if I really want to do something, I don't care if everyone else disapproves, it's my path in life and this is a bridge I have to cross to get to my learning zone and develop myself further.

Now for the more personal part. For me, approaching girls wasn't hard because of the girl itself, it was hard because I might use a witty remark or some semifun way of approaching her and I just couldn't deal with an answer I didn't expect. In other words, it wasn't the approaching, but the fear of refusal that always kept me away. Now, after a few experiences and decisions, and having unknowingly crossed a few silly bridges, I have more self confidence and the ability to see that, hey, sometimes you're not the one that's off, it's the other girl who's having a bad day and should deal with it. Who knows, maybe you can even help her with it by saying something more sensible, if the context is appropriate. Or, well, just go your own separate ways and don't think about it.

Hope the above helped, and waiting to hear more from others as well on this subject.

[Brent G]

Yes this is an interesting topic
Overcoming awkwardness or shyness is very hard. Especially when it comes to talking for the first time to a attractive girl

You said that you went to your city's center, and started approaching women, asking them for directions.
Asking questions help alot. But You need topics or questions to back it up.
A good question to ask and works like golden is: asking the time (lol make sure you don't reveal you have a watch or cellphone to the girl)
But before you even ask, think of one or two questions or things to say beforehand. So, you ask the time to the lady, and she answers and gives it 2 you, if shes not in a rush, tell her Y u asked the time, if ur going somewhere or have an errand to do tell her it.
Don't forget to smile, you want her to think you're a postive person not negative.
After either you can ask more questions like where she is going and what she has to do today
OR even compliment her on how she looks or whatever. Don't compliment heavily, you might scare her away.
If you feel shes the most hottest thing that god ever forged on this earth, you should take baby steps before you completely share with her all your thoughts about her. You need her to accept you and show her it is alright for her to be comfortable with you.
Knowing that a girl is truly comfortable with you is marvellous and works wonders. You know you are the best, if you can get a girl to be comfortable around and wanting you to talk with her more less than half an hour or five mins. Maybe soon you'll be able to do that.
After those questions and topics, you can start putting your flirting skills to the test and maybe get her number.
So, that seems like an easy start. I find saying Hi really is hard for people who aren't truly over their shyness, like myself, it makes sense to just be prepared of what to say and when the moment comes. Say It.
However, if you want to say hi and say whatever you want after it. Just be reactive to whatever she doess after you say it. If she likes you when you said "Hey, you know you are really cute, and i just had to say that" and she smiles, say something like "Wow, your smile makes u look more cuter." But remember not too much compliments. You should just start talking about whatever comes to mind, and make sure it sounds fun or interesting for her to talk aboutwith you

Hope that helps!

[JCZ]

Thanks guys for your thoughts!

Cpt. Jackal, you bring up a fun and intriguing example there. I'll keep it in the back of my mind, as I'll do with all positive thoughts I know I need much harder than anything negative.

Brent G, thanks for your advice as well.

I think about this a lot. One of my close friends already called it an obsession, and I agree: I'm obsessed with the idea of being able to really connect with people - even those I do not yet know. First step is the 'approach': no approach, no connection, of course. If it weren't for him seeming to be a bit non-active, I'd be buying the products of Juggler.

[Alex]

Asking for directions or for the time or saying hi or anything are great if you can manage it.

But if you go out and simply don't talk to anyone, I would consider that counter-intuitive.

Only set yourself up for something you can and will do. Take it from there.

So don't start out by having as a goal to tell 50 girls they are cute or something like that. Too big.

Start with just saying hi to one girl. Next day, maybe one again. A couple of days later, build up to two girls.

Work your way up - longer lasting results 

[Scott D]

I just got a haircut yesterday, and here in Las Vegas we don't have many of those long-term barbers, the kind of person everyone gossips to about everything and such. We have a lot of places like Supercuts and Fantastic Sams and that sort of thing. As I'm sitting there at Supercuts, getting my hair cut by a really attractive young lady, I thought, "Wow... this is like, the perfect place to practice social skills." So we started talking. We had similar tastes in music and she went to the same highschool that an old friend of mine did, so we talked a little about that. Somehow the topic of relationships came up, and it turns out she's married, but at this point I really wasn't interested in trying to score a date, just in practicing my ability to talk to total strangers.

My "epiphany" makes pretty good sense, I think... when you get your hair cut in a place like I did, you can talk to a complete stranger, about anything really, without having to worry about being judged. If worst come to worst, just go to a different store next time. And if it turns out you and your barber got along well enough, you can continue having him/her cut your hair ever few weeks/months, so you can bring up somewhat similar topics each time, but it will be far enough apart that it's like talking to a stranger again.

I just know the next few times I get my hair done, I'll be getting it cut a bit longer than normal so I have to go in more often, giving me more chances to practice. 

[JCZ]

@Scott D: I've recently been to a barber similar to what you describe - one with, picture this, only girls aged at about 18-20 yrs old. Needless to say, I saw this as a grand opportunity to practice some social skills.

@Alex: I think what you said is great. There are some guys out there who just say: "go and do it - don't do it? Then you won't get good at it." Which is at least counter-productive to my situation. I've taken it baby-step by baby-step. And when I look back on how I was socially, I think that really was the best thing to do.

That said, I feel I'm finally getting somewhere. Talked to 18 different women today, and 20 more during the last week (I mostly just asked for trivial things though). After doing this, whenever I saw a girl I thought: "why not talk to her?" So that's a good thing. Totally different from the "why go up to her? I'll fail miserably" I thought before.

So the anxiety is diminishing. Now to take it to the next level... Because when I really AM talking to girls, I still have this 'at a loss for words' feeling. But that doesn't scare me as much anymore.

[JCZ]

Well guys, I'm just about to say "OH YEAH" right now. Not because of undeniable success... but because I went to this jazz café tonight, and I had my share of fun, despite being all by myself. Tried to talk to two girls that apparently didn't understand me at all (they switched to speaking english, even though they were from Holland? I mean, huh???) and didn't seem too interested as well, and I was like "whatever." I was like that all night long. Didn't talk to much girls, but that doesn't matter to me right now; all that does, was I was very much laid back all the time.

I did have a nice conversation with a cool guy who appeared to be an amateur bass player. And I 'facebook'-closed the girl that played the piano. Let's see what'll come from that; I'm hoping for at least some lessons in jazz improvisation.

And this was definitely because of me trying to talk to women all day long. I'm impressed with the energy these forms of social interaction apparently yield.

[Alex]

Man, I love what you're saying here...

What else is there to say than, keep it up!?

[JCZ]

Thanks! I'll be sure to do just that.

Just one day later, I had a really nice conversation with a dancer. She was absolutely cool; I really dig people that are very passionate about what they do. And she was just that.

Well, the dancing was part of a concert in which, besides our choir, a flutist also participated. For some reason, I had been thinking she was a) several years older and 2) already taken. But since she was absolutely stunningly beautiful, I initiated a conversation with her. Well, I did get the impression she kind of liked me. I was also a little intimidated by something, not quite sure what that was. Anyway, I'll be seeing both girls again in two weeks (next concert, no actual dates yet). Nice future perspective.

[Alex]

Yeah, passion is really attractive - also to girls. Always remember that.

How did you initiate the conversation with this dancer girl? Might help some guys.

And yes, it's common to feel a little intimidated. Don't worry about it, just remember to breathe and listen.

Anyway, once again, good job. And best of luck to you and your future dates!
Lucky bastard...

[JCZ]

Oh, that was easy, actually. On the way back we were sitting in the same car, next to each other. I was glad she finally got to talk, though. In the beginning, whenever I asked her a question, she would answer and then be silent again. So I started telling some things, and eventually she opened up a little more and we got to talking about the things she and I liked.

The flutist was an other story, though. We were all kind of waiting for the concert to begin, and she was just sitting there. I wanted to try to have a chat with her, so all I did was sit next to her and ask her: "so, are you ready for it?" And then asked her about the flute playing, etc., etc. Of course, me studying the piano helps a lot, because I know something about the 'world' of music.

Now what I intend to do this week is try to initiate an enjoyable conversation with someone I don't even remotely know... That's a little harder.

[Scott D]

Is this cafe a place you go to regularly? If not perhaps you should start going there every week on the same night, meet some new people and probably get to know some "regulars" a little better. 

[JCZ]

OK, the flutist seems cool. At our concert friday evening, she greeted me in particular. Nice. Tried to have a conversation with her, which went nice as well.

And then, after today's concert, she gave me her flowers (solists always get flowers, mere choirmembers don't). Cool. So I tried to set up a date, but she said she would be unable to come. Concert. Hm, the life of a musician...

So now it's Facebook-messaging, trying to extract a phone # (didn't ask for it, ****!), and then... 'seeing' her at our last concerts next week.

[abogatir]

I just try not to care sometimes, it prevents me from being shy, though I may regret it later when I say/do something socially inappropriate.